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Buknoy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bacon,

See, you are articulate in your communication that proves to me that you really went through higher education.

I completely agree with what you have presented, that's why Science is a solid rock foundation, there is no dispute with that.

I have also considered that myself, and in few cases that's a concrete logical explanation for criminal to do the things they did, they have split personality. That's another branch of para Psychology.

O.k., if all of those are the product of brain activities, so therefore, our brain has enough kinetic or maybe electrical energy to lift 30 lbs chair on the air, without deliberately doing them as my wife had experienced. That really doesn't make sense to me, I haven't seen in my entire life people who demonstrated that they can do that on purpose.

Personally I have no trouble accepting Science and Spirit world at the same time. There is no conflict at all. Let Scientist do their job, overall it helps humanity deal with lots of problems and inconveniences.
Let the Spirit world deal with corruption of humanity, so that we can at least eliminate the deliberate destruction, pain, atrocities, created by such corruption.

Science and Religion co-exist in different plane, in different aspect of human life, both have their advantage and disadvantages too. Typical of those are the radical ideas of one religion today, that deliberately kill people because they believe, their god is great.

Like you, I value truth more than anything else. Because at this moment it is very illusive. So much deception and manipulation.

The reason I don't totally sold out to Darwinian evolution is the corruption of his followers. They presented evidences, or I would say made up evidences to promote their idea.

Not long ago did the Lucy bone fragments was exposed as "HOAXED", it was constructed out of bone fragments, some part that are missing they constructed to make it appear as they wanted to.

What the artifacts are saying is that, there were life form of old that is now extinct, Dinosaur bones proved that. Sea Creature's remains that are scattered around the globe proved that.

Evolution will remain a Theory until proven beyond reasonable doubt. As of now, we are still subjected to peoples' own agenda, including Scientists who are obsessed with the proliferation of their idea.
I truly admire people including scientist who placed truth above all else, even beyond his personal reputation, who is willing to break his established belief if proven otherwise, a kind of person who has "Open Mind" in its real, pure undiluted sense.
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bacon
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theory of Evolution may be "just" a theory but it was widely accepted in the scientific community. if you want to prove something or an experiment perhaps it will start as a HYPOTHESIS...
A hypothesis is an educated guess about the outcome of an experiment before the experiment is performed. (blah blah blah.. everyone knows that..) The most common format for a hypothesis is: If... (state the experiment you will be performing here)... then... (state the result you think will come of the experiment)... because... (support why you think this will occur).

A theory is a plausible idea used in order to explain a phenomenon. A theory has been extensively tested and is generally accepted, while a hypothesis is a speculative guess that has yet to be tested. another example of a theory is the famous Theory of Relativity. its only a theory but widely used world wide from semiconductors and computer chips, nuclear magnetic resonance leading to MRI imaging, particle accelerators leading to beams for cancer treatment to Global Positioning System Satellites.. but, no one contradict it because it didn't cause any trouble in any belief like the Theory of Evolution.

it is also true that there's a missing link from Denisova Hominin to Homo Sapiens (modern human) but scientist are still working on it.

Religion, on the other hand, man came from dust and woman came from a rib. nice, i don't see any logic in there but it was a great story. not only that, how can a snake talk? LOL. what about the sun is revolving the earth? Joshua 10:12-13. How could there be light on the first day of creation if the sun was not created until the fourth day. Gen 1:3-5 and Gen. 1:14-19. The earth has a foundation? LOL Proverbs 8:27-29; Isaiah 48:13. and how old is the earth? 6,000 only? why dinosaurs are not mentioned in the bible? did noah missed them? oh maybe the ark is too small for them.. what about unicorns and a virgin birth? and tons of tons of inaccuracies. but great story thou. this is why religion and science cant co-exist. but on the other hand, they can actually coexist.. example, those islamic extremist (religion) carrying a nuclear weapon (science) to destroy humanity.. and god (if there's any) just sitting where he is and cant do nothing about it, yet, he's the most powerful and most merciful.. lol

i cant blame you if you're affected by Darwin's corrupt follower, but what about those corrupt priest who likes to molest a child? that doesn't ring a bell? all religion is man-made..
god. (cheating) this explanation is what everyone eventually resorts to when the other answers fail. now, i should make clear that i'm not talking about any of the gods defined in various religions. throughout all of human history, we've been trying to explain existence. but nobody has ever succeeded. and it's likely that nobody ever will. so we create the concept of god, (which you cant question its existence, he's invisible, and he needs money every sunday) whose only necessary property is being "that which explains existence."

this doesn't tell us much about god, though. it doesn't mean that any particular religion is correct. it merely defines god as something which answers "The Question", because we have not been able to.
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Buknoy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are going somewhere this time.

I like the way you question things, and that's perfectly fine.

That is one of the qualities that average people doesn't have.

I will just give you an overview, not a complete detail, my purpose is to let you discover by yourself. Experience is the best teacher.

First of all, God is the ultimate being, beyond our dimension, so therefore, He is not limited by time and space, as a matter of fact, He owns it, He is the one who created it.

If you are the owner, the designer, the builder, whatever you call that, you can modify, remodel, tweak, or do anything about it. Parts, let say the engine can not say, "Oh, no, no, I'm not suppose to be modified, my specific job is to run the system, you can't change me to whatever you want".

Now, about the sun, did you know that one quality of God is that He shines like a light? In the Book of revelation it says, "In the new Jerusalem, God will finally be present and visible, there will be no need for the sun, for He will be the light source of the city."

This God, is very different from the others, because He revealed Himself through His son Jesus or (Yeshua) closest pronunciation that we can come close, based on Hebrew text.

He is not angry, and doesn't want to pulverize whoever offended Him, like other god that people believe who are trigger happy executing people.

He is kind and compassionate just like what was told about Yeshua, who instead of condemning the practicing prostitute, He restored her dignity and gave a second chance to live a descent and productive life.

It is clearly stated in the Scriptures "God is not happy that anyone should perish (die, without hope, without the knowledge of the truth), but if possible should come to repentance and have everlasting life. He knows that, not all the people in the world will do that. In fact people will deny, ridicule, mock, even hate His son for revealing Himself.

It is known fact that even the Jews, His model, chosen by Him to demonstrate how God interact with humanity, does not recognize Yeshua as the son of God, they even crucified Him.

And that is given.

He is gentleman that He won't shove Himself in your throat if you don't want him in your life, He will leave you alone, as he had done since the representative of all humanity Adam had done.

But there will come a time when He will say "Enough", chance has been given throughout the entire human history to have their choice, nobody can say back to Him "I didn't know".

He is fair, at this moment as it was from the beginning we are still under the "Grace Period", He does not meddle with humanity"s affair. But don't be too comfortable, His time frame is almost over.

We have been warned, and the signs are pointing to that direction.

Overall, I could say He is the boss, His program runs according to His own choice but fair enough for people to know it in advance.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buknoy wrote:
We are going somewhere this time.

I like the way you question things, and that's perfectly fine.

That is one of the qualities that average people doesn't have.

I will just give you an overview, not a complete detail, my purpose is to let you discover by yourself. Experience is the best teacher.

First of all, God is the ultimate being,

- so someone must have created god coz he's a BEING.

beyond our dimension, so therefore, He is not limited by time and space, as a matter of fact, He owns it, He is the one who created it.

-not proven yet.. if the Theory of evolution is just a "theory", this is just a merely a "hypothesis", or not even one coz its not even an inteligent guess... so, this is not a fact, actually..

If you are the owner, the designer, the builder, whatever you call that, you can modify, remodel, tweak, or do anything about it. Parts, let say the engine can not say, "Oh, no, no, I'm not suppose to be modified, my specific job is to run the system, you can't change me to whatever you want".

- oh, so in that case what happened to an ice when melted? and then eventually evaporate? chemical changes are natural. people are getting older everyday.. science can explain that.. religion doesn't..

Now, about the sun, did you know that one quality of God is that He shines like a light? In the Book of revelation it says, "In the new Jerusalem, God will finally be present and visible, there will be no need for the sun, for He will be the light source of the city."

-then why he created the sun in the first place? what for? (the sun is the most adorned object in the history of mankind. it gives life, light, warmth, and protection.. aside from the fact that it is actually exist..) that doesn't answer the fact the whoever wrote the genesis was not smarter than the 5th grader. or doesn't know about the sun is the center and planets are orbiting.

This God, is very different from the others, because He revealed Himself through His son Jesus or (Yeshua) closest pronunciation that we can come close, based on Hebrew text.

-its actually Aramaic. anyway, this is one of my fave.. its like this; "Iam going to creat man and woman with original sin. then im going to impregnate a woman with myself as her child, so i can be born. once alive, i will kill myself as a sacrifice to myself. to save you from the sin i originally condemned you to.." makes perfect sense... you think?


He is not angry, and doesn't want to pulverize whoever offended Him, like other god that people believe who are trigger happy executing people.

-sure, im pretty much agree on that.. thats why he ordered to kill, oh i mean, slaughtered all the first born child in Egypt. Pharaoh was holding Moses and his people captive, and doing really nasty things to them. god tells Pharaoh to let his people go, but Pharaoh says no. To show Pharaoh that he means business, god retaliates by killing thousands of first born children (and adults that were first borns too I guess). he was like, "dont mess with me, im god..lol".. I'll stick to the children though. I'm assuming some first borns were young. Anyway, many of those children had nothing to do with the slavery and atrocities committed by the Egyptian rulers. It's a lot like being put punished for something,
someone else does. not to mention all those died in the great flood (if it really happened) imagine those small children died on the flood.. killing helpless people its like ISIS are doing today.. different era.


He is kind and compassionate just like what was told about Yeshua, who instead of condemning the practicing prostitute, He restored her dignity and gave a second chance to live a descent and productive life.

It is clearly stated in the Scriptures "God is not happy that anyone should perish (die, without hope, without the knowledge of the truth), but if possible should come to repentance and have everlasting life. He knows that, not all the people in the world will do that. In fact people will deny, ridicule, mock, even hate His son for revealing Himself.


It is known fact that even the Jews, His model, chosen by Him to demonstrate how God interact with humanity, does not recognize Yeshua as the son of God, they even crucified Him.

And that is given.

He is gentleman that He won't shove Himself in your throat if you don't want him in your life, He will leave you alone, as he had done since the representative of all humanity Adam had done.

-like god's unconditional love but if you don't believe in him, you'e going to hell (as if there's hell).. he has a special place called HELL, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. LOL.. i think he didn't know the meaning of "unconditional".. too much for having a "free will" eh?

But there will come a time when He will say "Enough", chance has been given throughout the entire human history to have their choice, nobody can say back to Him "I didn't know".

He is fair, at this moment as it was from the beginning we are still under the "Grace Period", He does not meddle with humanity"s affair. But don't be too comfortable, His time frame is almost over.

-he doesn't coz he can't. let's all face it.. kids with cancer? part of divine plan? LOL.. children are dying coz of starvation? also part of divine plan? children are sexually abused, part of divine plan? if it is, what kind of god is he? if god's job is to provide everything for his people, i'd say he's not doing a good job.. he should resign, you know.. if this is the best god can do, i am not impressed. results like these do not belong on the résumé of a supreme being. and now, i'm having a threat coz i'm questioning him? what happened to my "free-will"? LOL


We have been warned, and the signs are pointing to that direction.

Overall, I could say He is the boss, His program runs according to His own choice but fair enough for people to know it in advance.


-i want you to know something, this is sincere, i want you to know, when it comes to believing in god, i really tried. i really, really tried. i tried to believe that there is a god, who created each of us in his own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. i really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fu***d up.
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Buknoy
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can sense the real frustration in you.

It's normal, how can you be happy if you see sufferings all around?, that's perfectly normal.

Just a clarification, it is a false idea to put responsibility on God, for things that humanity did.

He did not cause for children to suffer and and die, Corrupt people of power do. He did not cause for rape and disrespect for women to happen, lustful men do.

People wants God out of the equation, so He let the humanity alone.

If you are aware of the danger of Gangrene, doctor's has no problem amputating body parts that will contaminate the whole body. In a wider sense, God in an act of compassion for his chosen people ordered for the destruction of the whole culture in their neighborhood to get rid of contamination that will destroy them, and so they were, for failing to execute the command. I won't expect you to get it, you don't have time to study the whole context of the matter.

Oh by the way, you can say the 4 letter words too, some might be offended, it was also offending to the rule of this site, but I understand, I'm not offended.



In a real sense I don't really expect for you to get it, or even understand it. In fact I don't even see that you will accept what I've been telling you, How can we ever agreed on things which frame of reference doesn't even exist.



I can see, that, what you are interested at, is to drive your points.

Well, I will leave you alone too, I'm glad to have a chance to have exchanges with you, really is.

I always enjoy to know different views, it makes my life more interesting.

Appreciate your effort, that's the choice you made, and I'll make mine too.

I choose to sort out things from the rubble, what I see is the positive things despite chaos, I see love in spite of hate, I see compassion in spite of atrocities.

People and circumstances will throw us all kind of shits, but it is up to us to make fertilizer out of it.
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bacon
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

people always credit god for good things that are happening around us and not for the bad? LOL. thats kinda expected for a believer and bias. and people always thought that their god is one true god (wow, its like tons of god out there) and yet, no proof at all.. nada, zero.. its just an idea, fed into people's mind when they we're a kid. example: you think you're a christian if you're born in the middle east? no.. we're discussing islam now and not christianity if thats the case, or buddhism if you're born in india.. the biggest threat to humanity right now is religion.. look around you, i don't i have to specify.. 9/11? gaza strip? ISIS? i bet you can name more... these religion teach peace and yet they can't achieve peace.. why?

frustration? yes.. especially when you see those kids suffering and you think its a part you a "divine plan". they didn't do anything wrong and yet god (if there's any) just sitting and watching them suffer? i'm not a god but when i see those on tv, it surely breaks my heart..

is god willing to prevent evil, but not able? then he is not omnipotent.
is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent.
is he both able and willing? then whence cometh evil?
is he neither able nor willing? then why call him god? people don't need special doctrines or teaching or intervention of something to understand this.. just common sense.. i'd rather be a free-thinker than a brainwashed.. and thats right, i made my own choice.

oh and btw, the four letter word? i used it as an intransitive verb, so there's no reason (at all) people will be offended by that..

"the lack of understanding of something is not evidence for god.. it's evidence of lack of understanding..." -L.Krauss

Goodluck on your endeavour Sir, and thank you for your time taking this small "sharing" here at USAP-PAETE forum.. if there's anything that i mentioned or pointed out throughout our "sharing" that may or may have offended our audiences here in any way, my apology.. thats not my intention..

GOOD DAY!
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