PAETE.ORG FORUMS
Paetenians Home on the Net

HOME | ABOUT PAETE | USAP PAETE MUNISIPYO  | MEMBERS ONLY  | PICTORIAL PAETE | SINING PAETE  | LINKS  |

FORUM GUIDELINES
please read before posting

USAP PAETE Forum Index USAP PAETE
Discussion Forums for the people of Paete, Laguna, Philippines
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch    UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Mr. Nel Africano's lot donation and the "Ilang ilang pr
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view    USAP PAETE Forum Index -> Usap Paete
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
guest
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject: basurahan!!! Reply with quote

nagtatanong lng po, meron po bgang taga paete s DENR? at isa p pong tanong mga basura lng bga ng mga taga paete ang itinatapon dto? nkakalungkot isipin ang nangyari s ating bundok, naalala nyo po bga ang nangyari nung my tumamang bagyo s ating bayan n halos makalbo n ang bundok, mlamang ngaun ay kung mangyayari ulit yun ay bubuhos ang basurahan s bayan ng paete. basura na sa wawa basura prin s bundok..


salamat po,
concern citizen
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vice Mutuk:

Just a piece of unsolicited advise: Don't let anything or anyone influence your decision.

....listen to your concience & the constituents of Paete and you'll be in the right path....and as long as you're in the right path you have our full support!
Back to top
mutuk
Forum Moderator


Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 1860
Location: Vice mayor Rojilyn Bagabaldo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heto nga po pala yung kuha ko last Thursday morning July 14, 2011 just to have a visual aid sa pinag uusapan. Ngayon ko lang po naasikaso na i-post dahil maghapon po ako sa Maynila kahapon (Friday).


Heto po yung kasalukuyang level ng tubig sa lawa malapit sa highway sa may tapatan ng JORECS highway Brgy. Quinale. Kuha mula sa aming bahay.


Heto naman yung zoom photo sa Brgy. Quinale din highway tapatan ng Guilver trading.


Heto naman po yung zoom photo ng Wawa Park mula sa roof top namin sa Brgy. Quinale.

Dun naman tayo sa pinag uusapan na Canal # 6 base dun sa presentation na siyang magiging source papuntang proposed WWTF sa may Wawa na magiging subject ng lilinising waste water.


Heto po yung canal #6 na tinutukoy. Itong point na ito po yung mag uugnay na sa proposed WWTF. Napakalapit na po dun sa site na tinutukoy. Anino ko po yan.

Saan po ba galing yung canal #6?


Dito po yun nagmula sa box culvert na ito na bumabagtas sa ilalim ng highway sa may Brgy. 1 - Ibaba del Sur.

Dalawang bangbang naman po ang nagsanga papunta dun sa box culvert na tinutukoy.


Yung isa po ay yung bangbang sa likuran ng bahay nina Dr. Carunungan na galing naman sa canal mula sa may likuran ng malaking center (RHU) sa Bgry. Maytoong.


At yung isa naman ay yung canal sa may Brgy. 1 - Ibaba del Sur din na matatagpuan halos sa bandang gitna sa pagitan ng bahay ni Dr. Carunungan at ng ADECI. Galing naman po ito dun sa canal sa may plaza sa tagiliran lang ng simbahang IFI.


Heto po yung distansya na sinasabi ko. Yun pong bunggong bahay sa kaliwa ang bahay nina Dr. Carunungan


_________________
Rojilyn "Mutuk" Quiachon Bagabaldo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adedios
SuperPoster


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 5060
Location: Angel C. de Dios

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: Question for Professor Angel de Dios Reply with quote

Mario Ramos wrote:
Dear Dr. Angel De Dios,
Is Vice Mayor Mutuk the only one to ask regarding this project?How about the Mayor, has he none to say about this problem? I have been reading your litany of questions for Mutuk but none for our beloved Mayor. Any particular reason for not involving him? Just curious for not doing so. I think the Vice Mayor has many things to do, also. I think he has his own stand to hold on regarding this matter, too. Lately , Mayor Cadayona has not posted anything nor answered inquiries even questions directly involving or for him from the towns people.
Hoping for your answer,
M.Ramos, a Paetenio


Dear M. Ramos:

I am not addressing the mayor in this forum because the mayor is fully behind these projects. The mayor has the vision and he understands what is at stake and could see Paete years from now. My request not only applies to Vice mayor Mutuk but to all those who have questions regarding these projects. There is a master plan that LLDA has - it takes time but it is within grasp to see where Paete should position itself in the future. These projects are all within the framework of the LISCOP of LLDA. I strongly suggest that people get acquainted with this program so that the financing and funding schemes are understood. These materials are all available on the web and could likewise be obtained by requesting LLDA. The summary written by Bien Saniano would also help to see the larger impact of these projects if the fact that solid and waste water management are not good enough reasons to convince you of the worth of these projects. I would not request that people keep themselves informed but from the questions being raised, it seems necessary that people who have doubts need to do this first. Objections are good but they need to be grounded on sound reason and information.

-Angel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Guest






PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: Question for Professor Angel de Dios Reply with quote

adedios wrote:
I am not addressing the mayor in this forum because the mayor is fully behind these projects. The mayor has the vision and he understands what is at stake and could see Paete years from now. My request not only applies to Vice mayor Mutuk but to all those who have questions regarding these projects. There is a master plan that LLDA has - it takes time but it is within grasp to see where Paete should position itself in the future. These projects are all within the framework of the LISCOP of LLDA. I strongly suggest that people get acquainted with this program so that the financing and funding schemes are understood. These materials are all available on the web and could likewise be obtained by requesting LLDA. The summary written by Bien Saniano would also help to see the larger impact of these projects if the fact that solid and waste water management are not good enough reasons to convince you of the worth of these projects. I would not request that people keep themselves informed but from the questions being raised, it seems necessary that people who have doubts need to do this first. Objections are good but they need to be grounded on sound reason and information.

-Angel


In case you missed it, here's one of the comments posted earlier:
and I quote...

"Palagay ko ay walang kumokontra sa ganda at layunin ng project na ito, hindi rin naman siguro totaly nalimutan ni Vice Mutuk ang mga kaganapang paulit-ulit na ipina-paalala mo sa kanya.

Ang sa amin lamang, ayon na rin kay Vice, sa kasalukuyan ay mas maraming mga problemang pinansyal ang dapat unahin kaysa rito, hindi ito maituturing na "priority" sa ngayon. Lalo na at mangungutang tayo ng hindi birong halaga ng wala namang katiyakan sa magiging resulta. Ang aming mungkahi ay mag hintay muna tayo, huwag na muna nating ipilit ang hindi pa natin kaya at pabayaan na muna natin yung ibang bayan ang sumubok. Let them get the "honor" of being the first. Hindi naman nakakabusog yan.

Btw, maybe I am being naive but I don't see any politics here."


...so Angel, please listen & understand: its not about the project itself that the people in Paete have issues here, it's about the economic & financial impact to the town's coffer is ...I'm sure if its funding will come from sources other than "loan", then there will be no issue here!
Back to top
TonyB
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:13 pm    Post subject: dagdag tanong.... Reply with quote

Dear Angel,

Sabi ni VM, uutang ang ating munisipyo ng ilang milyon para sa pilot project. Ang mga tanong ko ay katulad din ng tanong ng iba.

Pilot project ‘to, ibig sabihin ito ang mauuna, di baga? Kung ito ang mauuna, di natin alam kung magtatagumpay (successful) ito o hindi (failure). Sabihin natin na ang probability na magtagumpay ito ay 50%, ano ang mapapala natin kung di magtagumpay ang proyekto? Hindi naman siguro mababale-wala ng utang na ayon kay VM ay labinlimang taon (15 years) babayaran kung saka-sakali. Kung magtagumpay naman, di nabanggit dito kung ano ang plano para sa natitirang 8 kanal at sa ilog. Hindi lang si VM ang dapat magkaroon ng liwanag sa kanyang mga katanungan at agam-agam kaya mas mabuting sagutin ang mga tanong dito para sa ibang makakabasa at nagtatanong tulad ko.

Ang sabi ni VM, malaki ang pinagbago ng ordinansa ng pagbabawal sa plastic. Ako mismo ay nakasaksi doon. Wala tayong inutang para magawa yon. Sa palagay ko ay masasabi nating epektibo yung ordinansang yon sa pagbabawas ng basura. Isang halimbawa ito ng proyekto na naging epektibo at higit sa lahat walang pinansyal na pasanin para sa ating munisipyo na maliit lang ang kinikita.

Maganda ang ordinansa na nagbabawal ng plastik dahil ang pinupuntirya niya ay ang pinanggagalingan ng basurang plastic. Kung di man tuluyang mawala, ay nabawasan. Marami pang ibang ordinansa ang pwede maidagdag doon. Halimbawa paano mapapababa ang level ng fecal coliform (galing sa dumi ng tao) at ang floating solids? Sa tingin ko ay ang isa sa pinaka-importante na hanggang ngayon ay hindi binibigyan ng halaga ng munisipyo at ng mga baranggay ay ang mga kanal ang nagsisilbing kasilyas ng maraming kabahayan nakasalang sa mga kanal.

Ang tanong ni Winston tungkol sa design dahil alam natin lahat na lumulubog ang ibang lugar bandang kanluran ng hi-way taon-taon kasama na ang wawa. May picture pa si VM na pinost tungkol sa kalagayan NGAYON na lubog nga ang wawa. Ang design baga ay mataas para hindi ito lumubog taon taon? Kung mataas ito, kailangan baga ng pump? Kung mababa naman, paano kung mataas ang tubig ng wawa? Pag mataas ang tubig ng wawa na alam naman natin ay taon-taon ay ganoon. Ibig sabihin magiging stagnant ang tubig hanggat hindi bumababa ang tubig ng wawa. Ayon sa presentation,

“The average monthly and daily flow rate determination were not done due to the recent occurrence of typhoons Ondoy, then Santi and Tino, which caused the ten sampling sites to be underwater for four months.”

Base sa itaas, may dalawang mahalagang bagay na dapat ay maidagdag sa kaalaman natin ay kulang.

Dahil di nila kinunan ng flow rate (bilis ng daloy ng maruming tubig), paano nila nasabi na magiging optimal/pinaka-mainam ang kanilang design? Palagay ko ay isang napakahalagang kaalaman ito na dapat ay sukatin para maidagdag at ma-consider sa design.
Kung di bumaba ang tubig ng 4 na buwan, mabagal ang magiaging flowrate kung hindi stagnant. Ibig sabihin, ang flowrate ay paiba-iba. Dapat kasama ito sa consideration ng design. Paano ang magiging takbo ng pasilidad kung mataas ang tubig ng wawa ng mahabang panahon.


Sang-ayon ako kay VM na ang proyektong ito, bagama’t maganda ang hangarin, ay WALANG kasiguradohang magiging epektibo. Kung hindi maging epektibo, maiiwan lamang ang bayan natin na nakabitin sa ere at nakabaon sa malaking utang. Kung magtatagumpay naman ito, ano ang plano sa natitirang walong kanal at ang ilog? Sabi nga ni VM, mangungutang na naman baga (hindi ko naiimagine na magkakahimalang bigla at may magbibigay sa atin ng pondo para tuluyang matapos ang ating sisimulan.

Ang sa aking opinyon ay dapat natin i-encourage tong project pero dapat di tayo ang magpo-pondo sa pamamagitan ng utang dahil di ito kikita ng salapi para ipangbayad sa utang. Kung hindi makakakuha ng ibang pagkukunan ng kita ang munisipyo, paano tayo makakabayad sa utang? Kung meron nang detalyadong plano ang SB kung saan kukunin ang pambayad, maaari bagang mailagay din dito para mabasa ng lahat ng gustong makabasa tulad din ng paglalagay nila dito ng ibang ordinansa?

Ang isa pa hindi ko nakikita sa presentation ay yung “risk analysis”. Ano ang pinakamalaking pwedeng maging problema ng proyekto kung saka-sakaling ito ay umpisahan at kung papaano ito haharapin? Ano ang mgiging epekto ng problemang iyon sa ikakatagumpay ng proyekto? Makikita natin doon sa risk analysis kung paano pinag-isipan ng mga sponsors ang magiging takbo ng proyekto. Makikita rin natin na mas pamilyar sa ating lugar kung meron silang hindi naisama o kung may mahalaga silang nakaligtaan.

Paano pag tag-ulan na malakas at mabilis ang daloy ng tubig galing bundok? Sa design naman, hindi binanggint ang mga scenarios tulad ng nabanggit sa itaas, kung mataas nga ang tubig ng wawa, tuloy-tuloy baga ang magiging daloy ng tubig sa buong taon o seasonal lang ito? Wala rin sa presentation ang “total solution” sa problema natin na binigyang tuon ni VM. Kung sakaling magtagumpay ang proyekto, paano natin ito palalawakin para masakupan ang lahat ng kanal at pati na rin ang ilog. Ang 5000sqm baga na available para dito ay sapat na sa lahat o ito ay para lang dito sa maliit na kanal na ito? Dahil ang pilot project na ito ay kapiraso (partial solution) lang, bakit natin gagawin kung alam naman nating di ito pang kabuoan? Sa makatuwid, dapat kasama sa presentation/plano ang total cost ng buong solusyon sa problema. Yung kasama lahat ng kanal at ilog, detalyado. Kasama baga ang ibang kanal o iba ang ating plano para sa kanila? Kung iba, ano ang plano natin para sa ibang kanal? Kung iba ang plano natin sa ibang mga kanal at ilog, bakit hindi ganon ang plano natin sa lahat ng kanal? Higit sa lahat, paano ang popondohan at babayaran ang utang?

Ayon sa presentation, mayroong 28 bayan at syudad na may kabuoang nagkaka-pollute ng Laguna lake. Tayo ay maliit na bayan lang pero di tayo ang pinaka-maliit. Maaaring tayo ang pinaka-maliit na pinakamarumi (sa salitang Payti, ay pinakasamlang), o dahil sa maliit ngunit mataas ang population density. Sa 28 na ito, bakit Paete ang napili? Tayo baga ay pinili o tayo baga ay prisintado? At kung tayo ay prisintado, bakit yung 27 na bayan at syudad ay hindi? Bakit hindi Pakil o Kalayaan o Siniloan? Kung pinili sila ngunit tumanggi, o di kaya'y hindi sila nag-prisinta, may alam baga sila na hindi natin alam?

Ang huli kong tanong, ibig sabihin baga ay ang ilog at kanal ay tuluyan na nating gagawing estero (pansamantagalan) na tapunan ng liquid household waste at kasilyas ng bayan dahil meron naman tayong treatment plants? Di baga’t mas mabuti yung isipin muna natin na mapanumbalik natin ang kalinisan ng mga ito sa pamamagitan ng ibang “creative” na pamamaraan sa halip na tuluyan na nating patayin dahil nandyan lang naman ang treatment plant?

Ang mga kanal ay pinagtatapunan ng basura at dinadaluyan ng liquid household waste. May mga ordinansa na tayo dyan ngunit hindi naipapatupad ng maayos. May mga pag-itan ang mga kanal na butas para dumaloy ang tubig sa mga natitirang palayan, at kung mataas naman ang tubig ng mga palayan ay para may madaluyan ng tubig ang mga playan. Ang ibang palayan ay dinadaluyan ng sabon at tinatapunan ng solid waste kung kayat ang ibang palayan ay tuluyan nang inabandona ng nagtatanim. Nakakalungkot pero yan ang katotohanan ng mga nasa Paete, ang bayang malikhain.

(Pag pasensiyahan nyo po ang aking tagalog. Mas madali ko pong mailalahad ang aking mga katanungan sa English kahit medyo barok kaya nga laang ay mahalagang maintindihan ng lahat ang mga ito. Sana ay naintindihan ninyo ang aking sinulat at kung may gusto kayong linawin, pakisabi na lang kung alin. Salamat po.)

PSP (para sa Payti!)

cheers!
TonyB
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Question for Professor Angel de Dios Reply with quote

adedios wrote:

I am not addressing the mayor in this forum because the mayor is fully behind these projects. The mayor has the vision and he understands what is at stake and could see Paete years from now.
-Angel


With all due respect Angel, I think the mayor could NOT see Paete years from now, special vision or otherwise. Nobody has that capability. For all we know, and I will give VM my full support, they both have the future of Paete in their hearts. Walang monopoly si mayor sa paghahangad ng ikabubuti sa ating bayan. Wala rin siyang monopoly sa understanding about what's at stake. Their differences are in how to find solutions to the issues - this issue in particular. I will not accuse VM of politicizing the issue because we can set aside his motives and concentrate on very important questions he raised that I mayself and others want to hear the answers for. You cannot claim that this project is THE ONLY solution. Palagay ko kung hindi ito ipapangutang, madaling makukuha ni mayor ang support ng karamihan, at ng tulad ko. Dahil may mga katanungan kami, hindi ibig sabihin namumulitika kami o wala kaming special power to have 20/20 vision on where Paete should be going. Lahat tayo nangangapa. Para di tayo mangapa, nagtatanong tayo. Focus on the questions not on the motives. Mahirap pag walang dissenting voice, mas mabilis tayo magkakamali.

For the record, I support a sanitary landfill for Paete in the near term and maybe to accommodate other towns solid waste including on financing the project in part by debt, but we have to have a very good plan, and the financial model must be detailed. The difference between the landfill and the other project is that the landfill can be made to partially if not fully self-financing.

Regards,
TonyB
Back to top
adedios
SuperPoster


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 5060
Location: Angel C. de Dios

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Question for Professor Angel de Dios Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:


In case you missed it, here's one of the comments posted earlier:
and I quote...

"Palagay ko ay walang kumokontra sa ganda at layunin ng project na ito, hindi rin naman siguro totaly nalimutan ni Vice Mutuk ang mga kaganapang paulit-ulit na ipina-paalala mo sa kanya.

Ang sa amin lamang, ayon na rin kay Vice, sa kasalukuyan ay mas maraming mga problemang pinansyal ang dapat unahin kaysa rito, hindi ito maituturing na "priority" sa ngayon. Lalo na at mangungutang tayo ng hindi birong halaga ng wala namang katiyakan sa magiging resulta. Ang aming mungkahi ay mag hintay muna tayo, huwag na muna nating ipilit ang hindi pa natin kaya at pabayaan na muna natin yung ibang bayan ang sumubok. Let them get the "honor" of being the first. Hindi naman nakakabusog yan.

Btw, maybe I am being naive but I don't see any politics here."


...so Angel, please listen & understand: its not about the project itself that the people in Paete have issues here, it's about the economic & financial impact to the town's coffer is ...I'm sure if its funding will come from sources other than "loan", then there will be no issue here!


The way projects under LISCOP work involves matching from the Local Government Unit. A 4th Class municipality, if I am not mistaken, is required to finance half of the project. The other half comes as a grant from the LLDA.

The LLDA has made the point that the two projects: the materials recovery facility and the wastewater treatment are done simultaneously. LLDA met with the finance committee of Paete to gauge whether Paete could afford the two projects. This is mainly because of the increase in the internal revenue allotment of Paete.

There were several meetings between SB, UPLB, LLDA on these projects. Technical questions have been raised and these have been answered. That is why I am perplexed that these questions are being asked by Vice Mutuk. He knows these questions have been answered. Even at the very first meeting which I attended, these concerns were raised.

Should Paete give up these grants now, after all the years of pursuing this? LLDA will not pay for all, only half. It is only right that Paete shoulders the other half so that it will take ownership and responsibility of these projects. Half of the money required is about to be given to Paete so that it could take care of its waste. Does Paete want everything to be free? I do not know if that is possible, to find someone who would pay for everything so that people could take care of their garbage and feces. This is the essence of these projects. If Paete does not want to take this limited and hard-earned opportunity, if Paete does not want to take responsibility for its waste, then the only alternative is not to produce any waste.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
adedios
SuperPoster


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 5060
Location: Angel C. de Dios

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyB:

These are very good questions and you have the right to ask these questions. Mutuk, as vice mayor, has been well informed and is aware of the answers to your questions. And he has the obligation to answer your questions.

-Angel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Mario Ramos
Guest





PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:41 pm    Post subject: For Prof De Dios, thanks for paying attention Reply with quote

The bottom line here is that : the project is good in the sense it will show the nation whether wetlands are worth creating to clean the lake. Unfortunately, many paetenios like me do not have enough understanding of the depth and long-term profit from such project. Many of us therefore, are reluctant to agree to such gargantuan task since a loan is involved. Tax-paying paetenios are scared the brunt of re paying such loan will be upon our shoulders and since ours is a small town with small income as compared to the first-class communities from the first district, we might be in a negative position to repay it. Vice Mutuk now seem to change his position toward such project possibly because the burden shall be on him once he becomes the next Mayor or at the moment he might want to be on the neutral side because of the upcoming campaign. This is just my speculation. But, basically I support the project and pray that it would push through without the intervention of politics and more so, if the money comes in, it will be utilized properly and efficiently without the so-called kick back.
Back to top
Guest






PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

adedios wrote:
These are very good questions and you have the right to ask these questions. Mutuk, as vice mayor, has been well informed and is aware of the answers to your questions. And he has the obligation to answer your questions.

-Angel


...I don't understand...shouldn't it be the Mayor who is fully behind these projects (as you mentioned earlier) the one answering questions about them and not VM, who himself also has questions about the projects Question Question
Back to top
Guest
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:16 am    Post subject: Vision & Steps Reply with quote

Vision for Paete

Walang may monopolya sa Vision para sa ating bayan kaya nga marami tayong mga samahan sa ating bayan na lahat ng ito ay may kanyang kanyang vision para sa ikabubuti at ika-uunlad ng munting bayan.

At para sa akin, ang No. 1 dito ay $20 Club dahil ang kanilang ibinibigay para sa mga kabataan na sila ang susunod na henerasyon ay EDUKASYON AT KARUNUNGAN, HINDI UTANG!

Steps

May ginagawa na ang bayan para mabawasan ang Basura. Matagal nga yong batas sa Zero Plastic. Kailangan na lang dagdagan at ipatupad ng mabuti ang iba pang batas para sa tama at responsableng pagtatapon ng basura.

Kaya hindi solusyon yong Huwag Gumawa ng Basura. WHAT A RIDICULOUS COMMENT!!!
TAMANG IMPLEMENTATION AT MANAGEMENT ANG SAGOT DYAN!

Na KAYA ng Ating Bayang GAWIN!
Back to top
Guest
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:42 am    Post subject: Re: Question for Professor Angel de Dios Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
adedios wrote:
I am not addressing the mayor in this forum because the mayor is fully behind these projects. The mayor has the vision and he understands what is at stake and could see Paete years from now. My request not only applies to Vice mayor Mutuk but to all those who have questions regarding these projects. There is a master plan that LLDA has - it takes time but it is within grasp to see where Paete should position itself in the future. These projects are all within the framework of the LISCOP of LLDA. I strongly suggest that people get acquainted with this program so that the financing and funding schemes are understood. These materials are all available on the web and could likewise be obtained by requesting LLDA. The summary written by Bien Saniano would also help to see the larger impact of these projects if the fact that solid and waste water management are not good enough reasons to convince you of the worth of these projects. I would not request that people keep themselves informed but from the questions being raised, it seems necessary that people who have doubts need to do this first. Objections are good but they need to be grounded on sound reason and information.

-Angel


In case you missed it, here's one of the comments posted earlier:
and I quote...

"Palagay ko ay walang kumokontra sa ganda at layunin ng project na ito, hindi rin naman siguro totaly nalimutan ni Vice Mutuk ang mga kaganapang paulit-ulit na ipina-paalala mo sa kanya.

Ang sa amin lamang, ayon na rin kay Vice, sa kasalukuyan ay mas maraming mga problemang pinansyal ang dapat unahin kaysa rito, hindi ito maituturing na "priority" sa ngayon. Lalo na at mangungutang tayo ng hindi birong halaga ng wala namang katiyakan sa magiging resulta. Ang aming mungkahi ay mag hintay muna tayo, huwag na muna nating ipilit ang hindi pa natin kaya at pabayaan na muna natin yung ibang bayan ang sumubok. Let them get the "honor" of being the first. Hindi naman nakakabusog yan.

Btw, maybe I am being naive but I don't see any politics here."


...so Angel, please listen & understand: its not about the project itself that the people in Paete have issues here, it's about the economic & financial impact to the town's coffer is ...I'm sure if its funding will come from sources other than "loan", then there will be no issue here!


Sali din ho ako sa posting na ito...

To reiterate our sentiments about this issue...

Tama na maganda ang proyekto AT KUNG MANGGAGALING ANG PERA SA IBANG SOURCES NA HINDI UUTANGIN AY WALA TAYONG DAPAT PAGTALUNAN!
Back to top
adedios
SuperPoster


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 5060
Location: Angel C. de Dios

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:

...I don't understand...shouldn't it be the Mayor who is fully behind these projects (as you mentioned earlier) the one answering questions about them and not VM, who himself also has questions about the projects Question Question



That is the point. This is a project of the municipal government of Paete, which includes the SB. The SB has been part of the meetings. The UPLB scientists met with the SB. The persons in charge of the LISCOP of LLDA met with the SB. What is being said and discussed in those meetings with UPLB and LLDA are the official discussions on these projects. LLDA and UPLB are probably not reading this forum. If they do, they will probably be as confused as I am. Again, it is the LLDA that is requiring that both projects are done. Paete, by the way, is not leading the way in LISCOP - Paete did not even get in the first funding round of LISCOP.

If there is an alternative solution out there - do not post that in this forum - rather, present that in these official meetings. It is not possible to weigh or gauge one's proposal in a public forum like this. The objection to the projects likewise would not be heard if these are only posted in this forum. If there is an alternative proposal out there, defend it in an official meeting and not hide in this forum. Please do not say one thing here in this forum and a different or even opposite one in those meetings.

Again, the solid waste management and the wastewater treatment are very important issues. This concerns not only the future but also the present health condition of the town.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
nacklit
Forum Moderator


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 129
Location: Teody Alberto

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Kaya hindi solusyon yong Huwag Gumawa ng Basura. WHAT A RIDICULOUS COMMENT!!!
TAMANG IMPLEMENTATION AT MANAGEMENT ANG SAGOT DYAN!



That comment, "Huwag Gumawa ng Basura", is a desperate challenge for a desperate situation.

An ultimate call to be responsible.

That's all !!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
adedios
SuperPoster


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 5060
Location: Angel C. de Dios

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nacklit wrote:
Quote:
Kaya hindi solusyon yong Huwag Gumawa ng Basura. WHAT A RIDICULOUS COMMENT!!!
TAMANG IMPLEMENTATION AT MANAGEMENT ANG SAGOT DYAN!



That comment, "Huwag Gumawa ng Basura", is a desperate challenge for a desperate situation.

An ultimate call to be responsible.

That's all !!!!


Nacklit;

Thanks for making it clear. I think people are still not seeing that they are expecting others to clean up after them. Getting 50% funding seems not enough, they want everything to be free.

This is serious. As I understand it, the minute the proposed MRF facility is brought down, Paete will not have a place for its solid waste. The current setup is illegal and Paete is allowed to continue its solid waste management only because of these pending proposed projects.

-Angel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Guest






PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:40 pm    Post subject: Don't be Confused Reply with quote

adedios wrote:
Anonymous wrote:

...I don't understand...shouldn't it be the Mayor who is fully behind these projects (as you mentioned earlier) the one answering questions about them and not VM, who himself also has questions about the projects Question Question



That is the point. This is a project of the municipal government of Paete, which includes the SB. The SB has been part of the meetings. The UPLB scientists met with the SB. The persons in charge of the LISCOP of LLDA met with the SB. What is being said and discussed in those meetings with UPLB and LLDA are the official discussions on these projects. LLDA and UPLB are probably not reading this forum. If they do, they will probably be as confused as I am. Again, it is the LLDA that is requiring that both projects are done. Paete, by the way, is not leading the way in LISCOP - Paete did not even get in the first funding round of LISCOP.

If there is an alternative solution out there - do not post that in this forum - rather, present that in these official meetings. It is not possible to weigh or gauge one's proposal in a public forum like this. The objection to the projects likewise would not be heard if these are only posted in this forum. If there is an alternative proposal out there, defend it in an official meeting and not hide in this forum. Please do not say one thing here in this forum and a different or even opposite one in those meetings.

Again, the solid waste management and the wastewater treatment are very important issues. This concerns not only the future but also the present health condition of the town.


I don't think you aswer the simple question: why should VM be obligated to explain?

and I don't think anyone is proposing an alternative solution here (unless I missed it)...its the issue of how the proposed project will be funded- that's the issue that people of Paete is having problem with. Getting a huge loan without the assurance of success- that's the issue.

...people know that the projects cost money, ang sinasabi namin ay hindi pa natin kaya but if there is someone out there willing to pick the tab, why not?....so pls don't say that they want everything to be free, hindi naman ganay-on ka cheap ang mga taga Paete at meron din namang mga nag-aral at nakakaintindi.
Back to top
adedios
SuperPoster


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 5060
Location: Angel C. de Dios

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one understands the LISCOP program, this should be clear:

based on this post
http://paete.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11252

the municipal government will shoulder a cost of about 16 million pesos. What this means is that with the LISCOP program, the town of Paete will receive about 16 million pesos as a grant. The total cost of the MRF and the wastwater project, is about 32 million pesos. Dropping these projects means Paete losing the opportunity of securing 16 million pesos to address its urgent waste problem. Note that most of the cost of this project lies in labor as well. Throwing away these projects likewise means a loss of income opportunity for the people of Paete.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
adedios
SuperPoster


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 5060
Location: Angel C. de Dios

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am going to relate this story so that it is easier to understand:


Si Pedro ay may bahay ngunit wala siyang pinagtatapunan ng basura at ang kaniyang bahay ay wala ring kubeta. Si Jose ay nag-alok ng tulong - bibigyan niya si Pedro ng salapi na humigit kumulang kalahati ng kailangan upang mabigyan ng solusyon ang suliranin ni Pedro. Dagdag dito, pauutangin pa ni Jose si Pedro ng natitirang kalahati para mabuo ang kinakailangang panggastos.

Tama ba na hilingin ni Pedro na ibigay na lamang ni Jose lahat na kailangang panggastos?

Ang katotohanan ay napakarami pang Pedro na humihingi ng tulong mula kay Jose at lubhang maliligayahan kung tutulungan ni Jose.

The World Bank and the LLDA are receiving a lot of requests for funding. The World Bank can easily drop this to help others who are more willing to be helped.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
adedios
SuperPoster


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 5060
Location: Angel C. de Dios

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of broader impact, one should note that these two projects will also bring 32 million pesos into Paete's economy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
whernas2001



Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 858
Location: beijing, china

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magandang umaga po mga kababayan,

Marami na po ako o tayong nabatid o nalaman dito sa planong proyekto para WWTF....

Ako po ay hindi iniisip kung malaki o maliit ang gagastusin o kung ito ay saan man galing sa o kung ito man ay utang ( sa totoo lang trillion peso na ang utang ng Pilipinas sa World Bank lahat tayo ay may utang na kahit kaliit liitang tao di lang natin ramdam)...isa lang po ang nakikita ko ang proyekto po para sa sa pangangalaga ng Laguna De Bay...

Subalit napakahabang panahon ang gugugulin para magkaroon ng ganap na katuparan ang pagprotekta sa lawa ng Laguna napakaraming mga sama ng panahon ang pagdadanan nito at napakaraming pera ang uubusin...

Sana nga sa ikagaganda ng proyektong ito ay lahat dapat ng mga nakabaybay sa Laguna de bay ay halos sabay sabay na gawin ang proyektong ito.. At kung tayo nga ang mangunguna dito ay gaano pa katagal bago magsunuran ang bawat bay bay na maaaring maghihintay muna sila ng resulta kung maganda nga ba o disaster lang ang naging kabuoan...

Para sa akin po maganda nga sana ito para sa Lawa subalit ang kalikasan na lulubog lilitaw ang lugar ng paglalagyan ng proyekto ang di ko malimi kung paano ito magiging matagumpay...kaya siguro po ay pag-aralang mabuti o napagaralan na po nila ito.

(In the Future..ano naman kaya ang plano nila sa Lawa ng Laguna de Bay?)

Salamat Po Opinion lang...


Winston
_________________
what is life without something
whernas2001@yahoo.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
adedios
SuperPoster


Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 5060
Location: Angel C. de Dios

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I remember the slides made by the engineer correctly, the first order rate constant describing the action of the oxidation pond is 0.2 per day. This means the half-life is about 3.5 days. With the flow rate that was measured, the holding time in the pond is about 7 days, which means, 75% of the sewage will be cleaned (this is a significant reduction already). After this, the water will go through the constructed wetland where it will be cleaned further. The advantage of this system over conventional sewage treatment plants is the low maintenance plus its resilience towards flooding that you mentioned. I could not see the diagrams clearly because the writing is small but the pond is enclosed by a wall that has a height (I am not sure if it is one meter, but this could be altered as well if necessary). Nonetheless, even if the whole thing is submerged, I do not think the system is destroyed or becomes inoperative. Perhaps, its efficiency will be altered. The point is when it is not at high tide, it will be working very well. The final system will hopefully completely segregate the sewage from the natural runoff (and this is planned for the river) providing Paete with a clean river and waterway. This segragation could be easily done as soon as the oxidation ponds and wetlands have been constructed. The wetlands will provide a natural scenery for both flora and fauna.

The unfortunate thing is that this project is tied to the solid waste plan and if one is dropped, the whole project is dropped. Saying that this project is still on a pilot stage does not mean its probability of success is 50:50. It is much higher than that, otherwise, the funding would not have been as generous as 50%. Thw World Bank and the LLDA are also placing their bet on this project. It follows the project that was established in Arcata, California, where it has been proven to be a successful natural wastewater treatment. If one lives near Arcata, you could visit that place and see how the artificial wetlands had transformed that city. This is not an invention of Paete.

Laguna de Bay is shallow - this is the advantage that it has over Taal Lake, for example. This provides us more time to address the problem although that does not mean we have the luxury of time. the biological oxygen demand is at a dangeous level, but it is at a level that I think still provides us with time. Paete is indeed a small town among all municipalities surrounding the lake, but it is one of the major sources of organic pollutants, which is 75% of the problem Laguna de Bay faces.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Guest






PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:20 pm    Post subject: Say no More Reply with quote

....save your breath and say no more!

as we've been saying all along: we don't have any problem with the projects, hence, we don't need to be convince of their importance and urgency......THE PROBLEM WE HAVE IS HOW IT WILL BE FUNDED!

...32M in Paete's economy, how? ...this we need to be convinced
Back to top
whernas2001



Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 858
Location: beijing, china

PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magandang Umaga pong muli sa magpipyestang bayan ng Paete,

Magbibigay po uli ng aking opinion batay sa mga nabasa at nalaman ukol dito sa Proyekto ng SB para sa Laguna De Bay,

Ito po ay batay sa aking kuro kuro... na sa ngayon po ay wala pa tayong batas sa Pilipinas na nauukul o sa pangangalaga sa mga Lawa na nasasakupan ng Pilipinas sa pamamagitan ng pagdidikta o required na sa bawat bayan na nakabaybay sa lawa ay dapat na magkaroon ng WWTF...kahalintulad na lang Clean Air Act..napakaraming mga ibat ibang batas at ordinansa ang naglabasan para ito ay maipatupad....(di ba nga ramdam na natin ang batas na ito lalo na ng mga naninigarilyo hindi na ganoon kalaya katulad noon)....marami po tayong mga magagaling na mambabatas na gumagawa ng batas subalit marami rin ang hindi naipapatupad ng husto.

Batay na rin po sa mga naisulat dito nauukol sa proyekto para lang po sa aking kuro kuro yung 50% dicounted na makukuha ay totoong sayang nga kung bibitawan ang proyekto...na kung iiinsist talaga ito ng sangay ng gobyerno na ipatupad ay sa darating na panahon ay baka full payment na ang babayaran para sa proyektong ito kung hindi ito matutuloy sa ngayon...at sa ngayon po o darating pang panahon ay aminin man o sa hindi ay wala pong pagkukunan ang Paete para sa proyektong katulad nito kundi ang ipangutang dahil maliit lang po ang income ng ating pamahalaang bayan....at sa akin din pong kuro kuro hindi lahat ng mga ipinapasok na proyektong pang local at national ay madaling aprubahan at madaling iutang may mga hinaahanp din silang kalidad kung dapat ba o hindi dapat pagbigyan.

Isa pa po na naglalaro sa aking isipan ipagpaumanhin po ninyo..just to jump into conclusion...wag po sanang mangayari na umentra ang mga malalaking private company na mag handle ng proyektong ito katulad ng koryente natin na walang katapusang pagpataw sa mga consumers ang ipinagpagawa ng lahat ng detalye...nauukol dito.

At kung sakali po naman ito ay matuloy ay sana nga po ay taga Paete ang Contractor at mga Mangagawa dito at sana nga po ay pagaralang mabuti ang lebel ng tubig kapag tag habagat at makakapal na pader at dapat ay wag tipirin dahil baka magdulot lang ng pagpula galing sa mga mamamayan at sa mga nakabaybay sa Lawa ng Laguna.

Ipagpaumanhin po ninyo ang aking mapangahas na pagsulat ukol dito.

Salamat Po at Festa na po masaya na naman sa Paete

Winston
_________________
what is life without something
whernas2001@yahoo.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Guest
Guest





PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:22 pm    Post subject: Salamat Vice-Mayor Reply with quote

Salamat Vice-Mayor sa pag-post mo noong inyong SB meetings.

Una, malinaw doon na 'PRIORITY' ay HOUSING,

Pangalawa, ang pagsang-ayon nyo, except kay Konsehal Gido at Lourdes, ay para lang sa Design muna, at

Pangatlo, gagawa kayo ayon sa provision ni Konsehal Emer ng ' to conduct public hearings and ensure the stakeholders of all the stages of project implementation' (Na sa aking palagay ay mamamayan ang tinutukoy na stakeholders, tama po baga?) kung sakaling magustuhan ng SB ang design, atbp.,

At sa huli, may nasabi sa iyo ang LISCOP na may tsansa tayo na makakuha ng LIBRE PONDO kung maayos ang design
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   printer-friendly view    USAP PAETE Forum Index -> Usap Paete All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group